Comments on: Jabber Vision http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/ Former Open Source programmer with experience at companies like IBM and Apple. Now a UI Designer with an education in Cognitive Science and Human-Computer Interaction. Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:32:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Cristy http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-76571 Cristy Sat, 19 May 2007 11:51:28 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-76571 I should sat that most of us realize the things that are wrong in the current situation. One of the most important things is reaching new users, which depends on a very usable, good looking client. While Psi has a history of being an LICQ clone and being for power users only, the devs are very eager to do a lot of improvement on this front in the very near future. I personally am convinced this can be a very easy to use, handy, and good looking client, on _any_ OS. You just need people dedicated to accomplishing this. I should sat that most of us realize the things that are wrong in the current situation. One of the most important things is reaching new users, which depends on a very usable, good looking client. While Psi has a history of being an LICQ clone and being for power users only, the devs are very eager to do a lot of improvement on this front in the very near future. I personally am convinced this can be a very easy to use, handy, and good looking client, on _any_ OS. You just need people dedicated to accomplishing this.

]]> By: donate car http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-69111 donate car Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:47:33 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-69111 Didn't had problems setting up jabberd2 but the last one ... well that's a different story :) Didn’t had problems setting up jabberd2 but the last one … well that’s a different story :)

]]> By: julian http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-7872 julian Mon, 13 Jun 2005 05:55:19 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-7872 Yeah, since posting all of that I've tried setting up jabberd2 several times... and warmed up to ejabberd. :) Yeah, since posting all of that I’ve tried setting up jabberd2 several times… and warmed up to ejabberd. :)

]]> By: Adam Shand http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-7871 Adam Shand Mon, 13 Jun 2005 03:23:39 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-7871 For the record ... I've just finished setting up an internal jabber server at my work. After a whole bunch of looking around the *only* jabber server that I could find that had a decent web site and enough documentation to get going in a reasonable amount of time was ejabberd. Now I have to admit that I was initially put off by the fact that it was written in Erlang but the fact that it was trivial to install and configure ejabberd (apt-get install ejabberd), get it integrated with our LDAP servers and setup shared rosters ... has won me over. This is the third time I've looked at setting up a jabber server for one purpose or another and is the only time when I've found a server which wasn't so colossally annoying to learn anything about that I gave up in disgust. Adam. For the record …

I’ve just finished setting up an internal jabber server at my work. After a whole bunch of looking around the *only* jabber server that I could find that had a decent web site and enough documentation to get going in a reasonable amount of time was ejabberd.

Now I have to admit that I was initially put off by the fact that it was written in Erlang but the fact that it was trivial to install and configure ejabberd (apt-get install ejabberd), get it integrated with our LDAP servers and setup shared rosters … has won me over.

This is the third time I’ve looked at setting up a jabber server for one purpose or another and is the only time when I’ve found a server which wasn’t so colossally annoying to learn anything about that I gave up in disgust.

Adam.

]]> By: julian http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2700 julian Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:16:23 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2700 Maybe so, but the point of <em>this</em> article was not to discuss Erlang and the viability of ejabberd. Maybe so, but the point of this article was not to discuss Erlang and the viability of ejabberd.

]]> By: Mickaël Rémond http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2698 Mickaël Rémond Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:06:58 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2698 "If you tell a corporation they need to install Erlang theyâ��re just going to look at you funny and say no." I think you are missing a point somewhere: Erlang has been created by the industry for the industry. It is not an academic language and is already used by corporations. -- Mickaël Rémond http://www.erlang-projects.org/ “If you tell a corporation they need to install Erlang theyâ��re just going to look at you funny and say no.”
I think you are missing a point somewhere: Erlang has been created by the industry for the industry. It is not an academic language and is already used by corporations.
–
Mickaël Rémond
http://www.erlang-projects.org/

]]> By: Matt Tucker http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2204 Matt Tucker Tue, 21 Dec 2004 05:29:03 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2204 <p>I don't think that things are nearly as grim as this blog entry makes them out to be. Instead, I think that the notion of what much of the community wants Jabber to be is somewhat outdated. Specifically, I don't think that a "Jabber network" to compete with AOL, MSN, etc is very viable or probable.</p> <p>Instead, XMPP the protocol is starting to show up in all kinds of interesting places -- in enterprise group chat, IM for internal networks, presence services, and online support. Instead of a website for consumer-level end users, I'd love to see a commercial-friendly website for protocol implementors much like sipforum.org. The focus of the community should be on trying to get developers to adopt the protocol and not to reach out to end users -- that's for client and server authors to do. There are a couple of steps that can help to accomplish this:</p> <p> * Phase out "Jabber" in favor of "XMPP". It's the IETF name for the protocol and it's a fact that the only commercial company using "Jabber" is Jabber Inc. It damages the community as a whole to have a commercially encumbered name. I can already anticipate all the counter-arguments, so don't bother. It's just a suggestion and not the critical part of my argument. :)</p> <p> * Create an entity or expand the JSF to provide a certification entity for XMPP products. The Open Source side of XMPP will always be at the core of the community, but there needs to be a way to promote and encourage commercial developers as well.</p> <p>On the client side -- I think Trillian is doing a great job with their XMPP support and UI. Better UI in all XMPP clients would only help though. </p> <p>So, although what "Jabber" is seems to be changing, from my perspective things are heading in the right direction.</p> Regards, Matt I don’t think that things are nearly as grim as this blog entry makes them out to be. Instead, I think that the notion of what much of the community wants Jabber to be is somewhat outdated. Specifically, I don’t think that a “Jabber network” to compete with AOL, MSN, etc is very viable or probable.

Instead, XMPP the protocol is starting to show up in all kinds of interesting places — in enterprise group chat, IM for internal networks, presence services, and online support. Instead of a website for consumer-level end users, I’d love to see a commercial-friendly website for protocol implementors much like sipforum.org. The focus of the community should be on trying to get developers to adopt the protocol and not to reach out to end users — that’s for client and server authors to do. There are a couple of steps that can help to accomplish this:

* Phase out “Jabber” in favor of “XMPP”. It’s the IETF name for the protocol and it’s a fact that the only commercial company using “Jabber” is Jabber Inc. It damages the community as a whole to have a commercially encumbered name. I can already anticipate all the counter-arguments, so don’t bother. It’s just a suggestion and not the critical part of my argument. :)

* Create an entity or expand the JSF to provide a certification entity for XMPP products. The Open Source side of XMPP will always be at the core of the community, but there needs to be a way to promote and encourage commercial developers as well.

On the client side — I think Trillian is doing a great job with their XMPP support and UI. Better UI in all XMPP clients would only help though.

So, although what “Jabber” is seems to be changing, from my perspective things are heading in the right direction.

Regards,
Matt

]]> By: Kevin Smith http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2059 Kevin Smith Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:42:48 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2059 Right, thanks for the feedback. * Slow release cycle. I'm trying to do something about this, but it's not easy. * You only have to compile code for CVS on linux, on windows there's various builds reasonably frequently, and I'm looking for nightlies. On OS X there's nightlies. * no MUC. This is planned for the next release (discounting the one that's about to be deployed) * no tabbed chat. Yeah, this is a killer, but it's way down on the priorities after things like muc and pubsub. * Whiteboard. I had never considered this a killer feature, thanks for the headsup. * I don't understand what you mean by statistics gathering :/ * x:data. Is supported for services but not chats in the currently pending release. * Typing notifications are in the currently pending release. I'm not trying to persuade you away from switching, just saying that we're not dead yet, and we're trying to fight on, so please check back in 6 months or so and you might like what you see. Right, thanks for the feedback.
* Slow release cycle. I’m trying to do something about this, but it’s not easy.
* You only have to compile code for CVS on linux, on windows there’s various builds reasonably frequently, and I’m looking for nightlies. On OS X there’s nightlies.
* no MUC. This is planned for the next release (discounting the one that’s about to be deployed)
* no tabbed chat. Yeah, this is a killer, but it’s way down on the priorities after things like muc and pubsub.
* Whiteboard. I had never considered this a killer feature, thanks for the headsup.
* I don’t understand what you mean by statistics gathering :/
* x:data. Is supported for services but not chats in the currently pending release.
* Typing notifications are in the currently pending release.
I’m not trying to persuade you away from switching, just saying that we’re not dead yet, and we’re trying to fight on, so please check back in 6 months or so and you might like what you see.

]]> By: Sander http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2024 Sander Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:44:37 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2024 "What is it about Psi that’s so terrible that isn’t in other IM apps? Please?" Some points I see (I'm using Psi but I'm planning to migrate to Coccinella): * slow release cycle * difficult to test as you always need to compile the code * no MUC * no tabbed chat * no whiteboard * no statiscics gathering support * no x:data support (and I heard the new version will not support that 100%) * no typing notifications * ... “What is it about Psi that’s so terrible that isn’t in other IM apps? Please?”
Some points I see (I’m using Psi but I’m planning to migrate to Coccinella):
* slow release cycle
* difficult to test as you always need to compile the code
* no MUC
* no tabbed chat
* no whiteboard
* no statiscics gathering support
* no x:data support (and I heard the new version will not support that 100%)
* no typing notifications
* …

]]> By: julian http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2013 julian Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:38:08 +0000 http://missig.org/julian/blog/2004/11/27/jabber-vision/#comment-2013 Well, if your aim is to be like Word, I would believe you could do that. Just remember that most people can't use <em>most</em> of Word's features—even when they need to. Word really needs to be divided up into a bunch of special-purpose apps with the same core (which is almost what they're doing with the new "Notebook mode"—it actually removes a lot of Word's features and only has the ones needed for taking notes). If you can correctly identify the core features of IM and make them easy enough to use, you could certainly be the Word of Jabber clients. Well, if your aim is to be like Word, I would believe you could do that. Just remember that most people can’t use most of Word’s features—even when they need to. Word really needs to be divided up into a bunch of special-purpose apps with the same core (which is almost what they’re doing with the new “Notebook mode”—it actually removes a lot of Word’s features and only has the ones needed for taking notes).

If you can correctly identify the core features of IM and make them easy enough to use, you could certainly be the Word of Jabber clients.

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